Episode 14: It's not about WHAT you do, but HOW you do it

In episode 14 of the "Der Conversion-Hacker Podcast" Jörg Dennis Krüger explains that online marketing and e-commerce is not about what you do, which tools you use and which methods you choose, but how you do it it does to really get to the right results.


Good afternoon, my name is Jörg Dennis Krüger and as my PowerPoint specialist at the reception just said, Yes I am the Conversion Hacker in brackets registered trademark brackets closed. And I have to start this edition of the Conversion Hacker podcast with a little apology, because how long has it been since I published a podcast? Seven eight months? Incredible.

I had so many calls on the first podcasts last year but then I had so many other topics on my mind that I just said I need to take a little break yes Corona was maybe one of the topics too. Everybody says Oh my God Corona has such a negative impact on the business I have so much time. I don't know what to do. But I have to say that Corona really hit home at some points. I have customers who have doubled and tripled their sales during Corona, maybe because of my help.

Because people have simply learned that online shopping is quite cool and I'm also very sure that this has given e-commerce as a whole, online shopping, a whole push forward not only in niches that have been rather difficult so far, e.g. food, but also in all areas because people have noticed that it just works really well and personally, if I stay with food again, I now order almost all my food online.

I started ordering from Rewe at the beginning of Corona and from Gentner. And now I continue to do so. It just works I unfortunately live in a city where there is no bottle post or what is the name of the competitor. I don't know it right now so I have to order my drinks from Rewe or something so I don't have to carry them to the third floor.

So that I am then really here also very well connected with two providers and get everything I need. During Corona and also after Corona and e-commerce It's getting faster and faster. We see Kaufhof has once again really collapsed because they Kummers simply not at all in the handle. Some time ago, I auditioned at Karstadt Kaufhof and showed them a concept of how we could make e-commerce better.

Didn't want to do it in the end and well yes big team and a lot of bureaucracy and whatnot. And you can see where it leads the stores are not used at all It was a great opportunity to make Icomos out of the stores or at least to link or what do I know.

But no Now we close the stores in a location and online Kaufhof is simply completely irrelevant or Galeria or this whole brand FA Cup comes yes still to it. And My topic today is somehow also relatively closely linked to this and I want it.

We're already calling it that because that's the main response I get when I tell online stores what they can do better - I come and say, "Hey, you're not guiding your users properly, the user approach doesn't fit, you can't recognize the products. There is somehow missing text and so on.

Now people are always saying, "No, no, no, we're already doing all that. We have optimized everything. We've done the texts on it and so that's how it works - we're already doing that - that can't be where the problem is. Or when I talk about tracking. No, we have Google Analytics all set up - we're already doing that. Everything works okay. Then I ask myself of course formulate sometimes can not answer I made a lot of sales or then I talk about advertising Facebook Facebook advertising. We've been doing that for a long time - it hasn't worked for us - we've done it from time to time, but it doesn't work for us.

And then I realize just like that. Ah okay. So you actually do everything. But still he doesn't move. Now think about it. Maybe it's not about what you do. Maybe it's about how you do it. Maybe it doesn't matter which advertising channel you use, which one is really designed like the store software you use and so on. Which tools one uses. Maybe it all doesn't matter. Maybe it just matters.

How to do that then ultimately. Because I can build the successful Schopp simply with HTML in case of doubt a nice Orta form behind it and a static redirection to Paypal. Yes well there I'm not quite as flexible but still I can build a conversion strong store and as WP is sometimes a nice way to put times not so much effort in the development to see if it but still sells.

And if you then simply concentrate on tools first and on ways to channels and so on. But this How do I do it right now actually loses sight of and then even rejects Raad because you say No Facebook you have already tried that does not work for us. Yes well then one has it perhaps also not earned to grow because, in online marketing quite often of the Pareto principle all use that all know that allegedly but also here it is obviously more a what instead of a how because all preach it down. Yes yes yes come the first 80 percent are enough work.

With it we reach much result The last 20 per cent are anyway too much work however the last 20 per cent are Pareto so correctly itself looks perhaps at the end for 80 per cent of the camp then nevertheless responsible. If one goes then really the long stony way and it hin. Correctly makes then one can reach thereby a whole quantity because these 20 per cent of these relevant 20 per cent are completely often stop. Behind and not in front are not the first 20 percent where I somehow build a little online store hope that it works but these first 80 percent are the hard work. There I achieve first of all relatively much. That's great, but the last 20 percent is the push that really makes it successful in the long term. And that applies to everything.

This applies to online market concept this applies to tracking this applies to landing pages for ADS especially Facebook Ads. It's about which plug-ins I use. And these little things. Where is the call to action it's not about if there is a call to action on the page. It's about making sure that the right call to action is there in the right place not confusing elements and so on. The same goes for the product info and that goes for everything where it is about focusing on the user, because I don't care about anything else that is not for the user, I don't need in my store. And that is also quite often what happens only in the last 20 percent that someone comes and says Okay you have built the store now and it looks good and everything relevant in it but now let's do the whole thing.

Leave out Teradata, which you don't really need. Let's really see that the store is not only responsive but also really good to use on mobile. And then we can also scale it properly. Many use online marketing a bit like a checklist.

Yes, there must be a call to action on the page, but check that the call to action is Bülow default and is perhaps labeled strangely and still 25 other peculiar next to it that is not noticed at all or is perhaps much too inconspicuous. This is not noticeable. What I have already led for discussions that I have said yes with the product is missing all the important information that can not be perceived. We have even proven this in tests. But nevertheless I get then said not however on it is there nevertheless. Yes but that's why it's just not the same tracking as Analytics built in that already runs. How often do I still lead the damn discussion that a build. Sweat of zero percent tracking error is and no well optimized Schopp. That's unbelievable.

Have I closed a sequence and again because Analytics or any other web analytics tool embed is just step 1 step 2 is watch out that I do not completely wrong Einbände what unfortunately goes very very quickly. Especially when I work with some funny plug-ins. Step 3 is that I configure it correctly that I then get really meaningful data and I do not collect data and then find out sometime after one two three months often after one two three years, that the data are not at all properly evaluable because they are wrong because I do not have any,

parameter because I have not hidden many other things properly and so on and so forth. And with Facebook Ads exactly the same stuff. Only if I shoot at Facebook then shit comes out the back and Facebook Ads run data driven just particularly great. And if I make a mistake in this whole process because I simply have no idea or because I rely on the false prophets.

Who tagged me at some point the right target groups then runs that and the like then nothing comes out of it. And that is exactly the point. You not only have to do it, you have to do it right so that it works. There are simply a thousand things in online marketing a thousand tools a thousand methods.

Step one here is to hide and throw away the 990 methods of it that nothing works anyway so not working where you just know it's not working. Keyword Native Ads for example please if you have a working Icomos case with Native Ads that really make revenue so measured performance wise.

Then please contact me because I would like to report very generously I have to tell everyone so far, Native Ads are just burning money because I see everywhere only burning money projects and I'm still waiting for the lawsuit from a not further named Native Ads network, where I simply rejected the bill. Friends have delivered nothing but shit.

I'm sure I won't pay the bill - you can't be serious. But hide these 99 things. The 100 things that really work then just use them and say nothing Yes that's what everyone does.

We need to do something different No the things that all do work yes obviously and that is a clean tracking. A good online store good advertising channels usually Facebook Instagram to find new visitors data driven is super great Google Ads has many problems disadvantages can also work well but there you have to then, really look at how to attract new customers and not just in traffic.

Then just design the site properly collect the data properly for marketing use for Lucke like use and best generate email addresses so that you can write to people by newsletter and that just done properly. How many stupid newsletters do I get every day where I already know that they can't make money. And then you are happy about two responses to maybe two 3000 newsletter recipients and then says runs on there we always have a good opening rate and everything great.

And you don't even know that others with a newsletter with the same mailing list make several thousand euros in sales because they simply do the newsletter correctly, who clean up the mailing list a bit again are not afraid of you, Qype and therefore also have the right frequency and and so on. So again. Long story short it's about how you do it, not what you do. And that's also why I'm now starting to focus more on conversion and conversion hacking, because it's really about thinking about conversion in a focused way and then finding pragmatic solutions to leverage the conversion potential that you find in the process.

And it's not about somehow integrating a fancy tool or inventing something really great, but this really clearly focused and pragmatic approach is where you quickly generate results. And if some agency says they need a lead time of two, three, four weeks or someone just says it costs one, two, three, four, zero, zero euros to remodel the landing page in the shop, then get out the pitchfork and shoo them out of the yard.

Because that's not what works quite simply for a very simple reason. Because we have to learn, we need iterations, and if each iteration lasts two, three, four weeks, then we'll never learn. An iteration has to go much faster so that I can adapt and shoot up and then really raise the right potential that is really fun.

But you first find a few more potentials looks at what where I can buy good traffic what converts well. To whom can I sell which product well. And then I have to develop a scalable strategy within a few days or a few weeks. Takes cycle from a few hours to a few days depending on the budget depending on the product.

If I have a huge mass product, it goes much faster than if I don't have a mass product, but I have to get there and that's what's really fun. It's so cool in e-commerce because I have direct feedback in e-commerce. I have the sales as direct feedback in other areas where I generate. Then I might need my count, because I need two to three weeks until the sale comes. I can't optimize anything there. In e-commerce I can do that, but of course there are always returns, which you also have to plan for in the end. But what if I'm not just selling shoes or clothes, my returns rate is usually not so huge and if I explain the products properly that can also convince the users so really not about the price, but also about the features about the properties about the advantages convince.

And then I make successful e-commerce and, stop really Yes pragmatically fast data driven sustainable scalable and so on and so forth there you can list all the passwords but only if I know how that really works and not by just doing it somehow.

In this respect, the conversion hacker is coming back more often I wish you all the best. If you have any questions write to me at jdk@jdk.de or go to jdk.de/oodcast and write comments under this episode. Find it all the old episodes including transcripts. So that you can also read what Coppi can do and so on and do me a favor rate me on Spotify rate me on Apple Podcasts. There are already some really great reviews, I would have been really happy, leave a nice message, maybe write what topic you want. I am very pleased.

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