Episode 14: It's not about WHAT you do, but HOW you do it

In episode 14 of the "Der Conversion-Hacker Podcast" Jörg Dennis Krüger explains that online marketing and e-commerce is not about what you do, which tools you use and which methods you choose, but how you do it it does to really get to the right results.


Hello, my name is Jörg Dennis Krüger and as my Powerpoint specialist at reception just said, yes I am the Conversion Hacker in brackets registered trademark brackets too. And I have to start this edition of the Conversion Hacker podcast with a little apology, because how long has it been since I released a podcast? seven eight months? Incredible.

I had so many views on the first podcasts last year, but then I had so many other topics in my head that I just said I have to take a little break, yes Corona was maybe one of the topics too. Everyone says oh my god Corona has such a negative impact on business I even have so much time. I don't even know what to do. Although I have to say that Corona really hit the spot in some areas. I have customers there, during Corona, maybe with our help, sales doubled tripled quadrupled.

Because people have simply learned that online shopping is really cool and I am also very sure that this has given e-commerce online shopping a whole push forward, not only in niches that have been difficult up to now, such as groceries but also in all areas because you noticed a person that works really well and I personally if I stay with groceries again I now order almost all my groceries online.

At the beginning of Corona I started ordering from Rewe and from Gentner. And now I'm going to keep doing this. It just works. Unfortunately, I live in a city where there is no message in a bottle or what is the name of the competitor. I don't know that I have to order my drinks from Rewe or something so that I don't have to carry them to the third floor.

So that I am really well connected here with one or two providers and get everything I need. During Corona and also after Corona and e-commerce It's getting faster and faster. We see Kaufhof has really collapsed again because they just don't have Kummers under control at all. I auditioned at Karstadt Kaufhof some time ago and showed a concept of how we could make e-commerce better.

Didn't you want to do it in the end and well, big team and a lot of bureaucracy and whatever. And you can see where it's going, the shops aren't used at all. It was a great opportunity to make Icomos out of the shops, or at least to link them or whatever.

But no. Now we are closing the shops in a location and online Kaufhof is simply completely irrelevant or Galeria or this whole FA Cup brand comes on top of that. And my topic today is somehow also relatively closely linked to it and I want it.

Let's do it, because that's the main answer I get when I tell online shops what they can do better, I'll come and say hey, you're not guiding your users properly, the way the users are addressed doesn't fit, the products aren't recognizable. Some text is missing and so on.

Now it is always said Nee Nah Nah, we already do everything. We've optimized all of that. We put the lyrics on it and that's how we do it, that can't be where the problem is. Or when I'm talking about tracking. No, we've set up everything for Google Analytics, we're already doing that. Everything works fine. Then I ask myself, of course, sometimes I can't answer the question, did I make a lot of sales or then I'm talking about Advertising Facebook Facebook Advertising. We've been doing that for a long time, it didn't work for us, we did that from time to time, but it doesn't work for us.

And then I just notice. Ah okay. So you actually do everything. But he still doesn't get anywhere. Now think about it. Maybe it's not about what you do. Maybe it's about how you do it. Maybe it doesn't matter which advertising channel you use, how the bottle is really designed, shop software you use and so on. What tools to use. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it's just important.

How do you do that in the end? Because I can build the successful Schopp simply with HTML, in case of doubt, a nice Orta form behind it and a static forwarding to Paypal. Well, I'm not that flexible, but I can still build a conversion-strong shop with it, and as a WP, something like this is sometimes a really nice way to not put so much effort into development to see if it still sells.

And if you then just concentrate on tools and generally on channels and so on. But I lose sight of this How do I do it right now and then also reject Raad because they say no, Facebook has already been tried. That doesn't work for us. Well, then maybe you don't deserve to grow because, in online marketing, everyone often uses the Pareto principle that everyone supposedly knows, but here too it's obviously more a what than a how because everyone preaches it down. Yes yes yes yes come the first 80 percent enough work.

With this we achieve a lot of results. The last 20 percent is too much work anyway, but the last 20 percent are, Pareto really looks at it, perhaps ultimately responsible for 80 percent of the camp. If you really go the long rocky road and do it. If you do it right, you can achieve a lot with it, because these 20 percent of these relevant 20 percent are very often just that. In the back and not in the front are not the first 20 percent where I somehow help build a bit of an online shop, hoping that it works, but these first 80 percent are the hard work. I get quite a lot there. That's great, but the last 20 percent is the push that really makes it successful in the long term. And that goes for everything.

This applies to the online market concept, this applies to tracking, this applies to landing pages for ads, in particular Facebook ads. That's about what plug-ins I use. And these little things. Where is the call to action it's not about if there is a call to action on the page. It's about having the right call to action, it's in the right place, there aren't any confusing elements and so on. The same applies to the product info and that applies to everything that focuses on the user. Because I don't care about anything else that is not for the user, I don't need it in my shop. And that's also very often what only happens in the last 20 percent that someone comes and says okay you've built the shop now and it looks good and everything relevant is in it but now let's talk about the whole thing.

Leave out Teradata which you don't really need. Let's really see that the shop is not only responsive but also really easy to use on mobile. And then we can really scale with it. Many use online marketing as a bit of a checklist.

Yes, there has to be a call to action on the page Check that the call to action is Bülow default and maybe labeled strangely and there are 25 others next to it that isn't noticed at all or maybe it's far too inconspicuous. That is not noticeable. What kind of discussions have I had that I said yes, the product is missing all the important information that you can't even perceive. We have even proven this in tests. But still I get told not but on it is there. Yes, but that's not the same thing with tracking as built-in analytics, it's already working. How many times do I still have the damn discussion about building one. Sweat is zero percent tracking error and not a well-optimized shop. That's incredible.

Did I close a series and do it again because integrating Analytics or any other web analysis tool is just step 1. Step 2 is to be careful that I don't do the wrong bindings, which unfortunately happens very, very quickly. Especially when I'm working with some funny plug-ins. Step 3 is that I configure it correctly so that I then get really meaningful data and I don't collect data and then at some point after a month or two, often after a year or two, I realize that the data cannot be evaluated properly at all because they are wrong because I no,

parameters because I also didn't hide many other things properly and so on and so forth. And with Facebook Ads exactly the same stuff. It's only when I commit shootings on Facebook that shit comes out and Facebook ads run particularly well, driven by data. And if I make a mistake in this whole process because I just don't have a clue or because I'm relying on false prophets.

At some point, the right target groups met me, then that works and the like, then nothing comes out of it. And that's exactly the point. You don't just have to do it, you have to do it right to make it work. There are simply a thousand things, a thousand tools, a thousand methods in online marketing.

Step one here is the 990 methods of hiding and throwing away that nothing works so doesn't work where you just know it doesn't work. Keyword native ads, for example, if you have a working Icomos case with native ads that really make sales, then measured in terms of performance.

Then please get in touch with me because I would like to report very generously. I have to tell everyone so far, Native Ads are just burning money because I see projects everywhere only burning money and I'm still waiting for the lawsuit from an unnamed Native Ads network, where I simply declined the bill. Friends only delivered shit.

I'm definitely not going to pay the bill, you can be serious. But hide these 99 things. The 100 things that really work, just use them and say nothing Yes, everyone does that.

We have to do something different. No, the things everyone is doing obviously work and that's clean tracking. A good online shop good advertising channels usually Facebook Instagram to find new visitors data-driven is super great Google Ads has many problems Disadvantages can also work well but then you really have to look at how you can win new customers with it and not just with attracts traffic.

Then just design the page properly, collect the data properly, use it for marketing, use it for Lucke like, and ideally generate e-mail addresses so that you can write to people via newsletter, and just do it properly. How many crappy newsletters do I get every day when I already know that they can't make any money. And then you are happy about one or two replies to maybe two 3000 newsletter recipients and then you say run on there we always have a good opening rate and everything is great.

And you don't even know that others with a newsletter with the same mailing list make several thousand euros in sales because they simply do the newsletter correctly, who clean up the mailing list a bit again are not afraid of you, Qype and therefore also have the right frequency and and so on. So again. Long story short it's about how you do it, not what you do. And that's also why I'm now starting to focus more on conversion and conversion hacking, because it's really about thinking about conversion in a focused way and then finding pragmatic solutions to leverage the conversion potential that you find in the process.

And it's not about somehow integrating a fancy tool or inventing something really great, but this really clearly focused and pragmatic approach is where you quickly generate results. And if some agency says they need a lead time of two, three, four weeks or someone just says it costs one, two, three, four, zero, zero euros to remodel the landing page in the shop, then get out the pitchfork and shoo them out of the yard.

Because that's not what works quite simply for a very simple reason. Because we have to learn, we need iterations, and if each iteration lasts two, three, four weeks, then we'll never learn. An iteration has to go much faster so that I can adapt and shoot up and then really raise the right potential that is really fun.

But you only find a few more potentials look at what where can I buy good traffic what converts well. Whom can I sell which product well. And then I have to develop a scalable strategy from it within a few days or a few weeks. Needs cycle from a few hours to a few days depending on the budget depending on the product.

Of course, if I have a huge mass-produced product, it goes much faster than if I don't have a mass-produced product. But I have to get there and that's what's really fun. This works so well in e-commerce because I have direct feedback in e-commerce. I have the sales as direct feedback in other areas where I generate. Then maybe I need my count, I need two or three weeks until the sale comes. I can't optimize anything there. In e-commerce I can do that, but of course there are always returns, which ultimately have to be planned for and stuff like that. But what if I'm not selling shoes or clothes, my return quota is usually not that huge and if I explain the products properly, the users can't really convince the price, but also the features, the properties, the Advantages convince.

If they have the product and are really satisfied with it, and so on and so forth. And then I do successful e-commerce and, really yes, pragmatically fast, data-driven, sustainably scalable, and so on and so forth, you can list all the passwords but only if I know how it really works and not by just doing it somehow.

In this respect, the conversion hacker is coming back more often I wish you all the best. If you have any questions write to me at jdk@jdk.de or go to jdk.de/oodcast and write comments under this episode. Find it all the old episodes including transcripts. So that you can also read what Coppi can do and so on and do me a favor rate me on Spotify rate me on Apple Podcasts. There are already some really great reviews, I would have been really happy, leave a nice message, maybe write what topic you want. I am very pleased.